The FBI is putting the pressure on ISPs to keep logs of what user do online, and then to keep these records for at least two years. FBI Director Robert Mueller is calling for the retention of user “origin and destination information.”
CNET has a great article up tracing out the history of the FBI’s call for data logs. From the article:
As far back as a 2006 speech, Mueller had called for data retention on the part of Internet providers, and emphasized the point two years later when explicitly asking Congress to enact a law making it mandatory. But it had not been clear before that the FBI was asking companies to begin to keep logs of what Web sites are visited, which few if any currently do.
One has to wonder how all of that information is going to be useful. If you’re trying to parse everything that an ISP’s customer has done over the course of two years, you’re going to end up in the territory of Excel spreadsheets that bring even the mightiest CPUs to a crawl.
Another concern is whether or not such a law for logging data explicitly for the purpose of federal investigation in some way violates the Constitution. For example, American citizens are entitled to an expectation of privacy. In my opinion, this if you’re just visiting a website in your home that doesn’t have any social features, this activity should be considered private. If, on the other hand, you’re on a site interacting with users, then you’re being less private.
Personally, any proposals for data logging set off my internal Orwellian sensors. The FBI argument will be that more data will allow for better policing of criminal activity, but that’s also the problem: all of the user data collected would be more or less for the purpose of prosecuting people. And the last thing we need in the US is more ways to put people in jail.
I am sure everyone will think I am nuts but for me, I could care less. I spend all of my time online either working (writing/debugging source code, etc), social networking or doing research. If the entire world knew what I was doing online (which they pretty much do thanks for Friendfeed/Twitter/Etc) it wouldn't make one bit of difference to me.
Even if I was the most boring person in the world, it's still the principle to me.
I can certainly appreciate that argument however I think at this point there is little we can do to change the direction that privacy laws are going so I figure just embrace big brother and be done with it.
I like this idea! Having been terrorized by a cybercriminal for blowing the whistle on him.
Are you fucking serious?
you are such a pussy, would you let big bubba rape you just to get it over with?
dumbass
Here's a good reason to say “no”. What if the Government “is informed” that you are doing something “wrong”. After investigating the Government finds you've broken no laws (though they don't like your activities), but does find out you are/were cheating on your wife/husband, girl/boyfriend. Someone decides to leak that information. Now a legal (though questionable) activity is out in the open to screw you over … and it wasn't the Government's business.
Don't think it could happen, check out the Wiki entry for Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.. The FBI didn't like what he was doing but couldn't stop him legally, so they tried to destroy his reputation.
FBI is pirates of privacy..that's all..
Big Brother is already watching you on the web. Someone, somewhere constantly puts your personal information on the web. Just google yourself and you could be amazed.
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. That's from Benjamin Franklin.
Security is not the issue that should rule our lives, freedom is. Anything that can be used to compromise one's freedoms, may it be in the name of security or something else, is bound to be abused. The end result would be no more security and just less privacy and freedom.
That's why igoogle is a bad thing, I only logg in to it to mess around w/ my games and quotes. Oo and btw I use my neighbors internet; gotta love open wireless networks. hahah
I agree with the person who posted about legal activities that could screw you over. Furthermore, though I sympathize with you who have been harassed and could use the government being involved, the systems that the government uses to discern whether your communications indicate illegal activity are arcane at best. I had a friend contacted about suspected illegal activity because she was doing research on the whys and hows. Now, you'd think that she'd just explain, it would work itself out, and that would be that. But she actually had to put up with a pretty hefty deal of harassment from THEM to clear herself, and there's a record of the whole debacle that's going to follow her for the rest of her life.
Again, in her line of work having been harassed by the government for her research might be considered a mark of esteem . . . but that's not right, not by a long shot.
Now let's factor in the possible ways in which the government can be corrupt . . .
and that happens bc of your careless acts!
If it is constitutionally based and the FBI is also subject to it, then they aren't allowed to do that.
'We the people' is a great testament to that. America belongs to us, not the government. Their role is to represent us, not reprimand us.
Why this is even in conversation, makes no sense.
For the record. The FBI already has detailed files on each and every one of you. The problem for them is some of that stuff that the FBI has collected on you is illegal. They can't use it against you in court. Hoover was a perverted Slimy pce of work and loved info on people's sexual habits and even the most mundane, of thier intimate details. “Government sponsored extortion anyone?” Ever filed for a security clearance? Got bonded for a job? been stopped at an international airport for ANYTHING? Then your records are even more detailed. This action is an effort to make it legal to snoop your stuff and use it against you in open court, Assuming they find anything… Downloaded any songs from limewire anyone? This is stuff they can't do now cause it is an infringement on your rights. and its one of a gazillion things that the government does that impedes a thinking persons constitutional right, to pursue happiness. Our government is aiding and abetting the individuals right to freely pursue things in which he enjoys because of a looming for fear, of federal prosecution. I don't mind if you look in my yard for a purse snatcher. However, checking my rectum during the search is going a bit to far.
Monitoring internet activity would be useless. If someone is going to commit a serious crime and needed to research it on the internet, don't you think they would be smart enough to do it from a public place, a friends house, or elsewhere other than their personal laptop. That puts the two year trace to uselessness
“Ah, excuse me sir, who was at your house using your computer on Feb 5, 2008? We suspect their was some fraudulent activity going on and we need to investigate. Perhaps we are going to start with fingerprinting your keyboard….”
Its going to be used on people that are ALREADY committing crimes, IE identity theft, hacking, email scams, etc..
Or people that are already suspected and in custody for committing a crime where the computer could potentially prove that they were the person that indeed did make them guilty of such, which THIS would now allow the FBI to track and trace what that computer has been doing for the past two years, if need be.
So yeah, you will start to be traced. So either don't commit felony's or don't let potential jail birds use your computer…ever ;)
i didnt mean to reply to someone, i just meant to post. Sorry.
Maybe the FBI knows that already :D
This is kind of incredible but not that hard to belive
Leo… tisk tisk
Wow, thats scary, if there was ever a time to use a good privacy service, this is it!
Jess
http://www.internet-anonymity.se.tc
No, it happened (past tense). Now he's under FBI investigation and will be going to prison for his cybercrime, crimes against the government and crimes against me.
It is what Google has been doing and then SELLING for a profit for years. Why should the FBI not have the same data?
This reminds me of some bills in congress: S.436 in the Senate and H.R.1076 in the House. Each of which is titled “Internet Stopping Adults Facilitating the Exploitation of Today's Youth Act,” or Internet Safety Act. It would basically require anyone that hosts a wireless internet connection, including private citizens, to keep the logs of their internet usage for a couple years. It's such a huge undertaking to keep records like this, and ultimately it's a violation of privacy. I understand the use for this, and how it could potentially save lives, etc, but to keep track of every website visited seems a bit much.
Use an OpenVPN-based anonymity service to access the net. Pick one that doesn't log, and that's not under US jurisdiction. Although the FBI etc. will have X years of logs from your ISP, those logs will show only connections to your anonymity service's entry node(s) — and nothing else. XeroBank is my current favorite WRT security, bandwidth and cost. I've also heard good things re Cryptohippie. Although CryptoCloud costs less, it may be less secure. Avoid Anonymizer, because it's owned by a CIA consulting firm.
“Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficient. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.” – Louis D. Brandeis
Because of the rise of these and other threats to the Internet world wide, more and more people are turning to solutions such as our VPN proxy https://connectionvpn.com/
Fascism is only a click away if the FBI (Fumblers, Bumblers and Idiots) has it's way. What I'd really like is Mueller to quit sending me e-mails offering to help me get $9M, or is it $90M?, out of some country in Africa.
WE HAVE KNOWN FOR 50 YEARS WHO THE ENEMY IS—OUR LAW MAKERS & OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT…..IT'S LIKE BEING UNDER MILITARY LAW EVERY DAY…..THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS JUSTICE OR BEING INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY…..THEY THINK YOU'RE GUILTY THE DAY YOUR BORN….
I agree that this would be unconstitutional but then again… they are probably already doing it.
Not that I think this will ever pass but if it does what stops them from reading your text messages, emails, listening to your phone conversations etc. This would remove all personal privacy.
When all the facts are staring them in the face e.g. Christmas Shoe bomber and Fort Hood, they couldn't connect the dots. I fail to see why more laws and erosion of privacy will make us any safer in any way at all!
If you are worried about it – use one of the many free proxy servers and call it good. If you don't want to use a free proxy server then find one that you pay for – I would check to make sure they don't keep logs though.
revolution. now. and vote socialist party usa
the founding fathers are rolling over in their graves…
Let's say you're digging deep in the web doing research on debugging or code or whatever when, surprise, one of the links you click takes you straight to a Russian kiddie porn site. You immediately close out the window and clear your history but too late the government already has proof you're a pedophile.
just don't live in the bloody us
I just don't see how that could happen, I mean anything is possible but no reputable site would have links that take you to such a location. I understand your argument and the argument that others have made in response to my initial comment so I suppose I should clarify. I certainly do not support or advocate ISPs logging everything we do and sharing that information with the FBI or any other parties but at the same time I just don't see what we can do to stop it. I feel that privacy is dead, particularly online and the only thing left for us to do is embrace it and move on.
What isn't too radical for you worth doing that will keep you from turning into a zombie?
Europe, when year all vicertal.
Gold will held ameria powere.
Republican voter laws.
CAPS ARE CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.
the FBI already has more raw information than they can deal with, they need to start figuring out meaningful ways of processing it
While I agree with the sentiment of the quote, attributing it to Franklin is apocryphal.
Even reputable sites get hacked…
ISPs already log all of our information, however…to pinpoint an exact location would be harder. Most ISPs give out one domain per area. So say you have internet with blah blah blah and the rest of your neighborhood has the same provider…you all would have the same IP address. I don't see by keeping a log for 2 years how the government would be able to pinpoint who is doing what – And in the days of wireless internet…people can hack a service and use it for their pleasure, then they are gone. So, who's to blame? It's our privacy and by having more than the ISP check what we're doing, is wrong.
People who give up their rights for Peace and security shall have neither.
Actually, we put our own personal information on the 'net in droves. It's called 'Facebook.'
I don't understand this perspective at all. One of the greatest crises of the modern era is the rise in political apathy, but that doesn't mean that we as citizens do not have power. If Americans all swamp Congress with letters about this and say “Dear representative, do not let this pass or I will not vote for you,” then this policy goes the way of the dodo.
Because Google can't put you in jail.
Don't you worry about the CPU usage. I work with data mining and this is no biggie tbh.
Don't you worry about the CPU usage. I work with data mining and this is no biggie tbh.
Cool! Then they'll notice that I'm desperately looking for work, and step in to find me a civil service job! (Attention: FBI: I have career status and a security clearance already in place!) >8-)
Next thing sgould be implant a GPS chip in our bodies and control our movements. That should be very helpful …
If this does get passed into law, it will violate the Fourth Amendment to the very core. Our right to be secure in persons, papers and effects means our online stuff as well.
This is pretty damn scary. Not so much that they could do it, but that they might be ALLOWED TO DO IT. It is bad enuff that the BUSHman et al ALLOWED 9/11 to happen so that they could ram thru the Patriot Act, among other things. How do we know that the FBI, CIA, NSA, aren't allowing or even promoting terrorist activities so that they can continue to erode our constitutional rights!?
Newspeak? Doublethink? Thought Police?!!!! Incredibly, the UK just passed a law that people (even journalists) CANNOT take pictures of police ( esp. when they are abusing their position), and it won't be long before that comes here, although some US cities actually have similar laws on the books.. somehow.