Rumors are flying that the forthcoming version of Internet Explorer, the ninth incarnation, will include strong support of HTML5.
This would be a dramatic change from Internet Explorer 8, which is not known for its HTML5 compliance for a reason. Thar reason? It has nearly none. This is hardly surprising, Microsoft browsers have for time immemorial lagged behind the market on adoption of the current standards of the internet.
Even worse, given the pervasive use of Internet Explorer 6 (a browser so old it does not support tabbed browsing), Internet Explorer users are often stuck in 2001, when the browser came out. Microsoft seems to be out to finally catch up with the rest of the world’s browsers, and perhaps run past them in certain areas.
At the most recent Professional Developers Conference (PDC09, which I attended), Microsoft discussed Internet Explorer 9 touting their goals to build a modern browser that passed the Acid3 test, and of course, worked with HTML5.
According to webmonkey, Microsoft is likely to demonstrate some Internet Explorer 9 goodies at the upcoming MIX10 event. If that happens, we will finally get a good look into the future of the browser that the world users, for better or for worse.
There are other implications. By extending a hand to HTML5 Microsoft will move ahead adoption of the standard in a large way. The better HTML5 does, the worse Flash does, given their tendancy to step on each other’s toes at every turn. What does this mean? Microsoft by boosting HTML5 will be helping Apple and their proxy war with the iPad and iPhone to combat Flash across the internet.
By upgrading Internet Explorer 9 to use HTML5, Microsoft is going to help Apple sell iPads. Somehow I bet that Ballmer would not like that. In other news, contented chuckles were heard from One, Infinite Loop.
- Update -
Given the epic comments that this post has received, which I have taken the time to read, I thought a short add-on was in order. To the people being mean, you are taking this to far. Given that you missed the point, I’ll do it again:
Apple has a large force on the future of technology. They are blocking flash from tens of millions of devices over the next few years. HTML5 can be used to replace certain areas of Flash functionality, especially those relating to video play. Apple will not kill Flash. Microsoft is trying to join the rest of internet (years to late), in meeting internet standards. Given that the standards that Microsoft is now planning on meeting are the same that Apple is promoting against Flash (Flash performance on OS X is utter shit, we all know this), so we have two of the most important companies in the world promoting standards that impinge on areas of Flash.
Sure, my headline is a little catchy, but it has two parts and two facts: IE9 will be HTML5 compatible, and that action will help promote the web-wide acceptance of HTML5 which will in certain areas compete with Flash, hurting Flash in the market somewhat.
There you have it. Flame on, I’m sure someone cares.
The thing is most people forget flash is most likely used for online videos, some people likely won't upgrade to a html5 browser with in browser <video> no codecs required support. Even though most of us will! Adobe needs to refocus on sites using flash for things other then video (kind of like what microsoft is doing with silverlight).
I also don't think this is the death of Adobe Flash, as Flash CS5 has support for developers to build iPhone games and Apps. see: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashcs5/app… for more information.
Well said.
64-bit IE is already “Anti-Flash.”
“The better HTML does, the worse Flash does.”
Hi, I don't believe that things are zero-sum like that. Each always improves, just a different rates.
(Was also unclear what was new in those older links Scott highlighted.)
jd/adobe
I disagree somewhat, but was perhaps too harsh. Also, hello again JD.
People are beginning to (perhaps incorrectly) see the world as divided into Flash and HTML5 camps. As a firm advocate of keeping both (my anti iPad rants have garnered my share of hate mail), I still have to think that this *is* a zero-sum mindshare battle.
Why does everyone think that HTML 5 is Anti-Flash!? It will take a long time before HTML X ever gets to the same level of functionality of Flash. Quit the Flash-Bashing. There's room for flash just like there's room for Javascript, Java and the like.
Adding support for HTML5 does not in any way imply that a browser vendor is anti-Flash.
It's only a zero-sum game when writers (such as yourself) make it so. The iPhone/iPad are the *only* major web browsing platforms that will *not* support Flash-in-the-browser by the end of the year. Apple is the only company pushing this message. Flash and HTML are good at different things, and they are so radically different from each other that the overlaps are most often misuses of one tech or the other.
It would be great if you could list some reasons and explain how HTML5 can step on Flash's toes. Will it be because of its ability to do animation? Or rich media capabilities?
HTML5 != Anti-Flash. And before you go thinking MS to be adopting web standards let us not forget that they're pushing Silverlight too.
They are supporting HTML5 because this takes away “pageshare” from Adobe. This helps silverlight. It is foolish to assume that if everyone had an HTML5 browser then flash or silverlight wouldn't be around though. I like that Microsoft is supporting standards, but they are only doing it to help silverlight.
we hear that song 3 years ago, when silverlight gonna kill flash :)
Why u guys hate flash so much ?
silverlight-> flash killer
iphone, ipdat,-> flash killer
html5-> flash killer
if you don't like your job, go drive a taxi ?
Why is supporting HTML 5 “Anti-Flash”? Why does everyone all of a sudden think HTML5 > Flash? Why are they mutually exclusive?
Flash does some things great including animations, games, RIA (Flex is amazing). Flash also allows developers to create annoying pop-ups, videos, and advertisements. If Flash dies, what will the developers who create these advertisements move to? HTML5.
Competition is a good thing.
Dude, grow up, HTML5 is not in opposition to Flash. HTML5 is a newer, better version of HTML, and the entire Flash community is happy to see it coming around. Web plugins will probably ALWAYS be around and have a purpose, just like HTML will probably always be around and have it's purpose. HTML5 does NOT do everything Flash does, and Flash shouldn't be used for everything where sometimes HTML is the better technology to use. The people raving about HTML vs Flash have really shown themselves to be rather dimwitted.
I read an article somewhere that Chrome gained the most market share over the past month. Now I read about Micrsoft conforming to HTML5… sounds like somebody's scarrrred
Just because tons of developers use Flash for video sites doesn't mean that Adobe's main focus is video. Have you used the Flash IDE? It's full of features, definitely NOT focused on video. They have a platform for designers to create animations and games with a powerful object oriented language. Have you tried Adobe Flex? They've also created an IDE geared more towards developers and it allows rapid creations of RIAs (and even desktop apps via AIR).
Hmm, Im stull not ready to jump the Firefox ship just yet!
jess
http://www.fbi-logging.at.tc
Alex, you're an idiot, it's ridiculous articles like these that pour fuel on the “Flash vs HTML5″ fanboy flame wars. Saying HTML5 is anti-Flash is like saying a screwdriver is anti-hammer. They are different tools for different jobs, anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that.
Flash is terrible, does not run well on old computers, and is only used to fill holes.
It does have high penetration, but the reason apple hates it is because it needs to run at such a high privilege level it could lead to a way to access the ipad at a lower level, and the last thing they want is virus's.
Okay, I have been getting these comments sent to my email address for the past 24 hours I would like to say a few things.
1. Flaming an author of an article which is their opinion and their opinion alone is childish.
2. Flash has been around since the 90's, as a web developer of the past 2 decades I have seen Flash used in the worst possible way, this is why most people hate it.
3. Flash is mainly used on the net these days for video, this has been helped alone by the likes of Youtube etc. Youtube at the moment is pushing a beta of the html5 player. This will mean the likes of Flash being used as both a server and used in video will go down (flash is used in games, websites etc. but MOSTLY on video websites).
4. The purpose of this article was to highlight that Internet Explorer 9 is going more towards an industry standard of html5 which is what every developer wants. This will mean the industry will take hold of the new html5 player element and start going away from flash itself.
5. If your a Mac user you'll have noticed Flash runs like a dog on the MAC OS. Even in Windows 7 it doesn't run as smoothly as previous versions.
Flash work great for me on older machines. Where did you hear that Flash will introduce viruses to the iPad? One major reason they don't want Flash is because it would reduce need for the App Store. Why go through the trouble of the cert process when you can just upload it to a web page and have it work on all platforms?
I would love to be able to play Flash games on my touch – but optional Flash plug-in is too “dangerous”.
HTML5 may be in IE9, but it'll still be 10 years before developers can actually utilize it because everyone will still be using IE7 and IE8. Which means Flash will still be around for a while longer. Instead of bringing out HTML5 in IE9, Microsoft should make a big update to the IE7 and IE8 browsers for HTML5 support. Which won't happen, I know
Tell that to Apple, k?
I didn't hear it would give virus's, I just understand how it works, since I am an IT professional.
The app store comment is one way of looking at it, but I believe apple want adobe to make flash reliable, and optimized, and there is nothing beyond that.
Apple already have better html5 support on the ipad than most, and svg/canvas soon will allow the development of games, so the need for flash is disappearing, and rather than installing this rouge binary on machines, i would prefer all these goodness to be included in the browser.
I don't understand the die hard defense of flash.
Thanks!
It's called hyperbole. People who write use it.
Then I guess that I am just dimwitted, so sorry.
I agree on the competition point for sure, and that Flex is great.
Good point on the promotion of Sliverlight.
I never said that they were saints, just that they are joining the rest o' the world on standards.
Good stuff. I think thought that given the total direction pull that Apple has though is huge. Also, we are talking about tens of millions of internet enabled devices over the next few years without Flash.
Or, all mobile Apple products forever without Flash -> that's bad for flash I think.
Also, agreed on them not being that overlapping. Video is the biggest conflict I think.
Video is the biggest war point.
…. stop being stupid. HTML5 doesn't mean anti-flash. wtf…
The reason Apple still refuse to include the Flash Player on their mobile devices is purely political. Adobe have publicly stated on numerous occasions that the Flash Player is more than ready for use on Apple's mobile devices. If Apple really did believe that HTML5 was the be-all and end-all then they would be pushing for all of their “apps” to be created with HTML5, not Objective-C.
I wounder how they will handle the <video> tag. Will it work with OGG Theora, mp4/h264 or will they lock it into WMV in an effort to make every device manufacture and video host pay for a WMV codec license. HTML5 really needed to have standardized Theora as a forced backup codec and ignore Apple/Nokia claims of some kind super secret submarine patents. Chances are we will end up with 3 codecs, none of which work on all major platforms and everyone will need to license all of them for their sites and phones.
HTML5 is very anti-flash. There is basically now nothing that could not theoretically be done in HTML5 that is done in Flash. Canvas2D, SVG for vector graphics, ECMAScript, <video> (which in reality is %95 of Flash's usage, that and ads). Expect the Flash install base to drop significantly when YouTube switches (which could be quite soon, Google are already going to phase out IE6 in March and the prototype HTML5 player is fairly good).
Yeh, it won't kill it overnight, we still require the equivalent of the Flash studio stuff for making pure animations. But anyone can now create a such a tool rather than it being owned by Macromedia/Adobe.
HTML5 is very anti-flash. There is basically now nothing that could not theoretically be done in HTML5 that is done in Flash. Canvas2D, SVG for vector graphics, ECMAScript, <video> (which in reality is %95 of Flash's usage, that and ads). Expect the Flash install base to drop significantly when YouTube switches (which could be quite soon, Google are already going to phase out IE6 in March and the prototype HTML5 player is fairly good).
Yeh, it won't kill it overnight, we still require the equivalent of the Flash studio stuff for making pure animations. But anyone can now create a such a tool rather than it being owned by Macromedia/Adobe.
But thanks largely to Apple the video tag is broken.
If all the content providers MS has been selling silverlight to switch to HTML5 and pick .WMV it's still valid, and doesn't help Apple at all.
People choose flash because it is universal and people will likely have the codec. We had embedded video before flash, typically you had to have a handful of plugins depending if people used Real, WMV, or Quicktime. Flash came along and gave video to all systems with a single plugin. Now we're staring down the gun of having to install multiple plugins again. Safari won't play Theora or WMV, Firefox won't play WMV or h264, and Internet Explorer won't play Theora or h264.
It's just as bad as the situation we were in before flash came along.
Personally I think they will try and kill both at once and push people towards Silver Light. Imagine an IE9 arriving with partially working HTML5 support and having like %40 browser share. They can break it in ways deigned to drive people towards silver light (ie the basic rendering works fine, but not so much things like <video> and Canvas2D which MS previously pushed to be separate from the core standard. Maybe <video> only supports WMV, so your forced to be on a MS platform (or one paying them royalties for the codec patents) anyway.
Id also like everyone here to focus on a technology called Flex. You seem to forget the powerhouse that is RIA development that flash has so rapidly helped with, something HTML5 is going to be ages and ages behind in. I'm excited to see both but I think this article is very fan-boyish and niave in many of its assumptions and statements. But thats just my .02
I've been hearing those sVG tales from almost 10 years. 10 years ago they were almost at the same level, now with flash you can do a lot more than banners. since you are an IT pro you must certanly know that html isn't a standard yet. it's not even approved.
It's not die hard defense. it's just that flash is an entire ecosystem with endeless possibilities. I would love to see the kind of developmet in web with other solution as flash can do now. Please show me a good example like augmented reality or audio manipulation in html/canvas/svg. This can be donde wit flash and silverlight. Or see game development in the level of unity.
FLAME ON!!!
FLAME ON!!!
If I must, I still think Silverlight is a Flash killer (Rome wasn't built in a day you know).
You might want to take a long hard look at the ActionScript 3.0 API before making statements like that. There are a large number of things that HTML5 cannot do, with or without JS, theoretically or otherwise.
This HTML5 vs Flash mindset that some people have adopted is absolutely ridiculous. The two technologies will end up complimenting each other just as HTML and Flash have been doing for the last decade.
This is something I've been saying for a while.
The thing with Silverlight compared to Flash is that it has deeper site integration, so Microsoft has less to worry about with HTML5 than Adobe does.
You can code Silverlight apps inline with your HTML documents, even write them in Javascript (using your browsers Javascript engine).
It's likely that a future version of Silverlight will support video through HTML5 (I know Microsofts IIS server software supports HTML5 video when a Silverlight video is viewed on the iPhone).
There are far too many questions and “what ifs” about a browser that won't be out till next year struggling to support technology that's been in other browsers for many years.
What kind of a heading is that? Microsoft and Anti-Flash movement? Supporting HTML5 is not Anti-flash. Flash and HTML5 are gonna coexist and revolutionize the web once again. We will see stuff which we have not seen before..thats how it goes.
Right? :)
And you have to resort to hyperbole to get your point across because it's evident that on the subject of web technology, you have a lot to learn.
Hmm, well, in that case, you've heard what Adobe Flash Player has been saying lately about Tiger Woods, right, and of course that wild night with Lindsay Lohan? That might draw more clicks…. ;-)
(I'm more interested in bringing about little pocket screens that can communicate with each other, and with the world around them. We're very close now. The hypertext skills will be a part of that, but any kind of rhetorical “war” distracts from the real goal.)
jd/adobe
Alex, it is speculation that Apple products will be without Flash forever. Jobs has said that the reason why Flash won't be on the iPad is because of performance. If these performance issues are rectified – and Adobe thinks it has already done this with 10.1 and convinced every other smarthphone manufacturer that it has too – then where does Jobs' argument stand then? If he does decide to add Flash to the iPad in such a case, no-one could say he's contradicting himself as it would be entirely consistent with his reasoning.
I am glad MS is at least now giving importance to the new web technologies.
I think Adobe, as a company, comply and promotes web standards much more than Microsoft… this fact makes your article completely absurd, or am I missing something?
I mean, Dreamweaver CS5 will support HTML canvas (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP98Tfc4WWg), and most definitely also the <video> tag… does this means that Adobe is also anti-Flash?
This assumes people will be upgrading to IE9. Most of the affected parties by this, the corporations who don't allow users to install their own browsers, will still be standardized on old versions of IE. Heck, I was doing some Flex development work for a large bank, and it was only in the past year that they decided to move up to IE7 from IE6, even though IE8 was out and had been for some time. Many organizations, as the author mentioned, are still stuck on IE6. IF they won't update IE6 to IE7 or IE8, why would they update to IE9?
HTML 5 is still a working draft, why does everyone talks so much about it. No one knows what the final spec will be so how do you want them to be fully compliant with the spec?
YEAH!
I don’t know where they got the idea that IE9 would pass the Acid3 test. Microsoft isn’t going after Acid3 performance. In fact, the writers on the IEBlog have explicitly stated that they aren’t concerned with how IE9 performs since it doesn’t really test browser functionality.
Acid3 only tests technology and standards that were around before 2004. A good browser can implement the entire HTML5 specification and still get a failing Acid3 score. So what does that even have to do with IE9’s HTML5 compatibility or this so called “anti-flash” movement?
I really think that corporate “stuck on IE6” scenario is going to fade when Google search stops working for those companies.
Also, those people stuck on IE6 really aren’t much of a concern for MOST websites. If your site has a lot of IE6 traffic it’s probably because you have a lot of people browsing your site at work, you cater to a “technology shy” audience or developing nations. Otherwise, I’ve only seen IE6 traffic percentages hovering around 3% to 4% and most of them are from Google searches (which soon won’t support IE6).
I don’t know where, but I remember reading “OGG Theora” in a post about IE9. I wish I could find the link for you.
It's not about viruses, it's About Money!
Apples has it's walls up around it's App Store which it makes a shit ton of money from. If flash was allowed to run on the Iphone/Ipad than people could just make new apps in flash and Apple would not make any money from those.
Yes you can make web apps in Flash with ECMAScript (AS3). Flash can use the GPS function and would run at a high enough level to be able to use a lot of the hardware on the phone.
Apple knows this and is scared of it.
Css3 as well? Its good news that it is leaning away from flash.
well said sir.
Anyone who thinks that apple is not letting flash for security reasons or performance reasons…. is simply RETARDED
Funny how flash is secure enouph to run on every PC, Mac and handheld EXCEPT the magicly over hyped i-phone/i-pod…
Flash isn't going anywhere… love it or hate it you cant stop the internet baby!
And I think you're over thinking Microsoft's motivation. I don't think its to kill Flash. That's Silverlight's job.
Microsoft may be many things, but when it comes to business sense they aren't foolish. Assuming internet statistics are correct, IE is rapidly losing users. I know my sister who used IE for ages recently switched to Google Chrome. And she certainly isn't tech savvy when it comes to things. Yet even she realized there was a superior browser out there.
With sites like Google Docs dropping support for IE6, Microsoft not supporting HTML 5 would give them even more incentive not to recommend any versions of IE but simply recommend other products. Microsoft likes to dominate the market. They may not lose their market, but it seems they realize supporting the standards this time around isn't a convenience but rather a requirement to maintain even a bit of market share.
“(Flash performance on OS X is utter shit, we all know this)” – this might improve though: http://www.kaourantin.net/2010/02/core-animatio…
I don't see why Flash and HTML5 can live together side by side, learn from each other, etc.
I don't believe in one single perfect option. Each option has it's strengths and weaknesses, and having the options in the first place is a pretty important thing.
It's like saying macs machines and osx are the best thing out there and everything else is crap, which I think it's slightly wrong. Everything is crap! There is no perfect computer, but there are OPTIONS. I don't see the savvy computer engineer running in haste to buy a mac, he/she needs a DIFFERENT tool for DIFFERENT tasks. I don't see a rich person consuming media or tiping a document every now and then impatiently waiting for a linux kernel.
I don't see what's the point of all this 'noise' …who gains what ? what's all this about ?
Wow thats a great news. This gonna work it.
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already noticing a few glitches with IE9. Here we go again.
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