It was only a matter of time, but the announcement has been made: Apple is developing a Flash alternative. Oh, but wait, the “matter of time” was apparently last summer.
Yep, the entire tech industry has known about this for a year, and yet nobody has seemed to have latched onto it. However, Apple Insider is giving a heads up as of today. Now, let’s take a look at what is and what could be.
The product, named Gianduia is a browser-side code written in Javascript. Its purpose is to provide rich content applications without the need for client-side plugins. Ideally, Gianduia will be used for Apple’s retail customers in order to create applications for them.
Apple has already been showing solid examples of the code. In fact, the Genius Bar reservations system, as well as the One-to-One program Internet interface are both done with Gianduia.
There’s the argument, of course, of HTML5 and changing standards. However, Gianduia is proving that rich content is already capable of being produced even before the Internet makes the switch to HTML5.
Gianduia within HTML5 will very likely be the proverbial straw that breaks Adobe’s back for Flash. In HTML5, objects that are already an integrated part of the page can be manipulated across the canvas, instead of having to be in their own containers.
Gianduia will take this one step further by offering developers the chance to truly code meaningful applications, inside of a customizable canvas, all while maintaining integration.
Our own @Alex said it best: the end user will decide when it’s time for Flash to die, just as it did with BASIC. If you’re asking me, I’m hearing a death march…
[Post Script: I'm not a coder. As such, I don't fully understand what this is capable of and what it is not, other than what I'm reading. That said, even without being a coder, I can still see the significance of it. This is not a flame intended for either side, but I think that it's a serious chance for Apple to provide interactive applications without having to rely on Flash.]
You spell this G word about 5 different ways in this article …
I was um…testing you. Yeah, that’s it. Testing.
Gianduia…Gianduia…Gianduia…Gianduia
lol do you have a URL?
We can only wish. The only information about it is what was released at last year’s WOWODC conference. I’ve done some digging, and I can’t seem to find much more about it, other than what it is.
Found this, but it’s all I’ve found.
http://terminalapp.net/tag/gianduja/
That’s the issue, at the moment. There’s just a complete lack of available information. As I said, for some reason, the entire tech world managed to miss this.
So it’s a webkit-dependent JS framework. No video, no hardware acceleration, no audio — how exactly does this kill Flash?
“…written in Java. It’s purpose…yada yada…no client-side plugins”.
It’s either very ironic or you’re just another clueless fanboy speaking out if your ***. I bet on the latter.
Still dont really get it. Is it really java, or a js framework? Both wouldnt be too intresting i guess. Java is slow and there are tons of good js frameworks.
Java is slow? Code can be slow and if your code is sloppy and relies too heavily on the system to do garbage collection and you don’t consider how expensive it is to create objects, it will be slow as a dog whether you use Java, Objective-C or C#. I’ve worked with some Java code which outputs payment files for banks in several formats that is called from the command line and is lightning fast.
I’m guessing that your last exposure to Java was in the form of Java applets back in the 90′s.
you have no idea what you are talking about.. first thing is that this Giudaia is not even written in Java, it’s JavaScript… a completely different language.
and no, HTML can’t do everything Flash does and probably won’t be able to do so for the next 10 years, but until there Flash will be doing way more…
HTML wasn’t created for complex interactive stuff..
Your pictures wrong, should be a chocolate bar. :)
gianduja
Hahah, I struggled with an image for quite some time. There were bars, cookies and finally that piece of pie. The pie had the best overall look ;)
so you just don’t like flash, is that it
just another nonsense fanbony
I have to ask the same question as sprezzatura – how exactly does this kill Flash?
And the twitter quote “[...] the end user will decide when it’s time for Flash to die, just as it did with BASIC” is a funny comparison. Elaborate, please…
Not really a comparison to this story, simply a statement. At some point, the programming public decided to move away from BASIC. There were no huge announcements or any “BASIC will die” type things, it just…happened.
The same will happen with Flash, when the time is right.
Creating interactive, compelling and fun content is a matter of available tools. Why are there so many cool flash games and apps? Because the tools are fun and user-friendly. Designers and creatives love these tools. One thing they DON’T love is a C++ or JAVA compiler.
Yes, one day javascript may replace actionscript (actually, they’re already quite similar), but first we need a user-friendly dev environment, instead of a coding hell that produces different results in every available browser.
Ahhh, now see, this is interesting. “instead of a coding hell that produces different results in every available browser” answers my question of why coders prefer to work within the container.
Thanks for the clarification!
Mea culpa, folks. I have to blame my lack of understanding of code, I suppose. When I was reading the source article, it seemed to me that what it was saying was that Gianduia would (when wrapped with other code) be able to kill Flash. Not a fanboy moment, as I’m actually fond of Flash (except for video, where I think HTML5 is a welcome change).
As for the Java/JS thing? Again, I have to chalk that up to ignorance of the subject. I’m just a tech guy, not a coder. But even with my lack of understanding of the intricacies of the subject, I could see that this was going to be big.
Hey Brad, I agree with erikman. Flash is so much more than video. Designer’s don’t enjoy C++. We love Flash because it empowers our imagination and creativity. I like having full control of the GUI. Flash is flexible and powerful. There is actually a bit of empathy for Adobe out here in design world. And Adobe’s products run on PC perfectly well. Here is a good joke I heard that sums up the growing sentiment about the way Apple’s empire is turning evil…
“Steve Jobs. The rot-in-apple!”
That’s the part that I’m interested in, to be honest – Will designers let Flash die? Judging by what I’ve heard so far, the consensus is no, and for the reasons that you just gave.
However, what about the whole container issue? Wouldn’t it be better to operate across the canvas, without having to make the canvas out of flash?
Just curious. I have no idea how you guys do it ;)
If one “likes full control of the GUI” then Flash is a limitation. Flash gives you fill control of Flash GUI, not full control of the underlying computer’s GUI. This is one of the points Steve Jobs brought up in his Flash rant. Flash gets pretty close to the capabilities of Win/MacOS, but falls short of the mark for multi-touch.
You do realise flash can do multitouch right? It is available in flash player 10.1. Flash has very little limitations. The only one i’ve found is that it doesn’t perform that well with 3d objects. They could do a lot to optimise it imo.
you mean it is supposed to do multitouch. it actually hasn’t been released yet. just betas.
and the few examples of it are not really that convincing. it crashed, it stuttered, the devices were clearly plugged in.
This just makes me laugh… Sure, one day something may replace flash, maybe microsoft silverlight or something similar? But to hear that html 5 will kill flash is ridiculous to me. Most of the people making these statements aren’t educated enough to know what they’re talking about.
There’s a lot of designers out there who love Flash because it’s a little money-tree for them. Why would they want to give it up.
The thing is, as Brad mentioned in his article, what about the end users? I coming across very little support for Flash from the end users. The only way Flash will survive is if it’s propped up by the designs who continue to insist on using it so they can charge clueless clients for it.
Personally I’ve had some many client’s come to me who say “but such and such said I needed Flash and it was going to cost $xxxx dollars”. Depending on the client I say your customers come to your website for a reason – to do business of some sort. They have very little patience for flashy, time consuming Flash animations etc – let’s make a nice looking site that is easy to navigate and for the customer to get what they want. No Flash needed.
“Gianduia within HTML5 will very likely be the proverbial straw that breaks Adobe’s back for Flash.”
This is an incredibly disingenuous statement. You (we) hardly know anything about this library, yet somehow you manage to conjure up the conclusion that this will ‘kill’ Flash.
But then, I would expect one of TheNextWeb’s writers to know absolutely nothing about the subject they’re publishing an article about.
<3
do come back.
Why does it have to constantly be this war-time mentality? If Flash is right, use it. If HTML5 or Gianduia or whatever can do it better, then hell yeah, use that! Be a developer, not a FLASH developer or a JAVASCRIPT developer. The solution that delivers what the client needs is the right one, period.
And if, as you say, “the end user will decide when it’s time for Flash to die”, then why does Apple feel the need to try to drown Flash in the bathtub preemptively? If the market, and end-users, and developers, will ultimately make the decision (as they always have, look at Director, or BASIC, or any other tool/language that went obsolete over time), then why this need to aggressively cut Flash out without even allowing it to prove itself (or fail miserably trying)? The truth is, we dont have a clue how Flash would run on the iPad, and when I try to run alot of HTML5 experiments on the iPad, such as the ones at CanvasDemos.com, the performance is, to put it mildly, less than. Yeah, Flash would crunch the hell out of the iPad’s CPU, but from what I’ve seen, so does a code-heavy HTML5 experiment.
@Adam
You are right, I hate Flash intros – simply a waste of time only clueless clients use them and many don’t know visitors to their sites hated this waste of time moments. The earlier they realize this and the earlier the death of Flash.
First it was Microsoft Silverware……and now it’s Apple Guineapig. Things ppl do to kill flash….aww.
Take a break boys, do what you’re good at. Stick with OSs and iPods…
That’s sort of my thought as well, but I also can’t argue with the necessity to have something that works on their platform.
Dude. Seriously. Basic? That is the funniest thing I’ve read all day. Most of the people who used Basic routines were programmers. And they moved on when a better programming language came along, like I dunno GW Basic. Don’t confuse today’s users with those of 1984.
Also this hoopla of a secret library in the works is quite funny. Apple are working on a super cool JS (that is Javascript and not Java Super) library that will run on the iPad. But wait the iPad doesn’t do HTML5. Even if this super secret library does kill of Flash, my guess is JS will most likely improve and guess what, become more like Actionscript cause they’re cousins.
Anyways – thanks for the heads up but don’t quit your day job.
A lot of people here are missing the point: Adobe stirred up this stink, not Apple.
Adobe noticed, rather late in the game, that Apple was using technologies which sidelined Flash. It picked on the iPhone when Adobe does not supply a good experience in Flash for any mobile device. And it won’t for half a year.
The fact that Flash websites can be reworked to perform on Multi-touch devices is irrelevant. It depends on Flash 10.1 which has just been released when the iPhone has been out for three years. Modifying a Flash website for multi-touch requires money and time which Steve Jobs would say is better utilized moving on to the next big thing: HTML 5.
Why would Apple want to sideline one of the most popular technology on the web? That is because, while Adobe has done a good job of supplying for Windows, it does a rather poor job on the Mac and has for a decade. Most of the programmers who are defending Adobe are on the Windows operating system.
Let me give you a hint, Adobe. If you neglect a market segment by delivering poorly performing cross platform apps, then that segment will move on toward other technologies. What does Apple owe you, Adobe? It may take three to five years for these technologies to get as good as Flash is now, but moving to them will remove the problems of using Flash on a Mac which Adobe is ignoring. Flash ads are annoying. Do you think it is an accident that so many Mac users are running ClicktoFlash on their Macs?
Adobe as gained nothing by throwing a hissy fit. Apple will ignore them; it will continue designing systems which will marginalize Flash. Those technologies will come without Flash’s baggage or poor performance.
Adobe has shown, by stirring up this fuss, that it doesn’t intend to make Flash work any better on a Mac. As long as Adobe maintains such a demanding, arrogant and presumptuous attitude, then Apple is best to treat Adobe like a stuck-up bitch.
Both then (the original announcement to “bring Cocoa to the web”), and now, I find this line of thought disappointing.
This is a large backwards step from other widespread frameworks (like the one this blog is using) that go to great lengths to trivialize the differences between all the major browsers.
We will always have more than one browser to consider. As a web developer I turn my back to what is essentially yet another proprietary framework!
It seems to me that there are 3 main categories of people in this Flash vs HTML5 debate. There are the good developers, who understand the pros and cons of Flash and when it should be used or when it should not, but ultimately will choose the best tool for the job to make the client and end user happy. Then there are the bad developers, who insist that Flash must die today and see the Internet as a boring, endless tedium of HTML, CSS and maybe a little JS, with no room for creative applications or immersive environments when appropriate. I have to speculate as to whether these developer’s hatred for Flash stems from salary jealousy or creative envy, though I’m sure many have genuine reasons. Finally, there are the non-developers. This includes the fan-boys, but also the people who have made a website and styled it with CSS, maybe a few JS effects, and think that that is programming. They have no idea what it is like to develop a serious application, because if they did they would understand why many developers enjoy coding and debugging in AS3 and like the speed and power of the Flash player. I would forgive their naivety, if it weren’t for their endless ignorant blog posts and comments that paint the world in black and white and spew out cheap sensation in order to get a bit of attention. They should also understand that right now, Flash has huge penetration and is cross platform, meaning that for desktop and a large section of mobile that supports it (most people still access the Internet from the desktop) it is a good choice for creative applications. The danger of articles like this is actually quite real – there is currently no reason not to consider Flash for a project, yet all of this tabloid, uninformed noise is making less informed clients worry, without knowing the full picture – we are talking about people’s jobs and livelihood here, so can we please stop saying that this or that will kill Flash and start having a sober debate like adults about the hopefully positive future of our industry. I know that I’m not the only one who is worried by the shallow and reactionary side of our community.
That’s soundly presumptuous! How about those of us developing web pages that realise that Flash is so badly efficient on any mobile platform that does try to support it as to be useless, and Adobe has ignored hardware acceleration possibilities for 10 years (as well as the Mac platform, geez they’ve only JUST gone OSX native after 10 years! if that isn’t behind the curve…) and found itself sidelined in the fastest growing bit of the web users (mobile web) wanting to blame someone else. Only Adobe is to blame for it’s position in the mobile web game, and I don’t want to be attaching my customers to that unless absolutely necessary, and quite frankly it is getting less necessary.
Kids gaming sites that my son plays on, fair enough, but he’s not reading this article. It’s more likely being read by those with a site for their business where FLash can be avoided with nothing but a benefit.
Yeah this is a bit rich, we heard all this bs with silverlight, I code across all disciplines, this flash versus js stuff is nonsense. I think its mad when all the Aplle fan boys are normally card carrying Adobe fans too, the why can’t we be friends music is playing in my head. I was excited when I heard CS5 would be able to produce iPhone apps, but alas, handbags at dawn stopped all that. God help us (developers) if Apple are our new mecca, I think I might become a suit instead :)
So help me out here, just because I honestly don’t know enough about the subject: If I’m using a Mac, would it be better for me to use an application coded with this, or coded with Flash? Which would provide the better end experience?
Brad,
The Apple line on Flash is filled with holes. Apple and Adobe didn’t come together on hardware acceleration for Flash on Macs (I won’t blame either side for this since I think they both have issues). They have just finished with the Flash/Mac hardward acceleration and it should make a good difference for those using Apple very soon.
As someone who uses both Apple and Windows platforms I really have never had big problems with Flash on either one. Despite the hype, Flash is pretty stable.
To really answer your question we need to turn to facts. Flash is faster and more capable than HTML5 when it can do the proper hardward acceleration. Here is a link showing it 2-4 times faster than HTML5/Javascript on the Nexus:
http://phandroid.com/2010/04/01/speed-test-flash-vs-html5-on-the-nexus-one/
Further, the HTML5/Javascript solution is performing poorly on Apple mobile devices too. Here are two links that address this issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfmbZkqORX4
http://www.taterboy.com/blog/2010/05/flash-vs-html5/
I especially like the second because it showcases the poor performance capabilities of HTML5/Javascript (as well as maybe Gianduia on the Apple site itself??)
If you, or anyone else who is interested, watches these videos you’ll see that the HTML5/Javascript performance is very bad on even the best implemented websites for both the iPhone & iPad. One of the reasons this is happening is because Javascript is only a prototyped language and is not truly Object-oriented. So, it slogs along. In order for HTML5/Javascript to do better, Javascript will need to be rebuilt into a language that will look significantly different from the one we see today. This won’t be an easy process. First, it will take lots of time and discussions (politics). Second, it will mean more education for developers (i.e. money out of the pockets of business). Finally, it will make the Web more “buggy” as browsers/developers try to update to meet the needs of the new language requirements.
If Apple is going to develop a tool like Gianduia, I’m going to guess that it is going to be proprietary in the end. I don’t think that HTML5′/Javascript’s poor performance on Apple devices is a big surprise to their engineers. I think that the HTML5 debate which Jobs has started is a smokescreen for something else he is cooking.
Speaking as a successful designer/Creative DIrector, I would be happy to see Flash die – as long as it is replaced by robust Javascript Frameworks and timeline animation editors that produce Javascript code. Hopefully this is what Apple is working on – and there will be others, no doubt. Even Dreamweaver has this functionality.
Adobe really pissed off a lot of Mac users with their underwhelming and expensive updates for the last 10 years. We need some fresh thinking. Adobe’s UIs are just painful to use. Flash is buggy, not truly cross-platform and not very joyful to use – in my opinion.
Good designers don’t rest on their laurels, they are always trying to learn the next new thing and to try and figure out where tech is going. I just don’t see Flash performing well on the new ARM mobile platforms anytime soon.
Until there is a technology/invention/community/marketing campaign to migrate designers and developers to create sites like these listed here at http://www.thefwa.com/, then Flash will be a part of a marketer’s, brand’s, designer’s and developer’s toolbox for a long, long time. All in spite of various social engineering projects that Apple is doing. Maybe Steve needs to let go that Visual Postscript licensing thingee with Adobe some years back. This is the type of hype that PC makers used to say about Apple Macintosh’s place in the market.
Thank you for the reminder that the Internet is a fickle, boring and hostile place. Ever since I was first bashing out websites against Mosaiq back in the day i already felt markup was a shit way to make anything more complex than a document with a header. And now look at us. 2010 and we’re still busy cramming as much inappropriate shit into HTML as we can. We’re literally elbows deep up the web’s asshole with this infantile bullshit.
I recall a point where plugins became a logical step, because complex layout of the sorts designers were after had no logical place within the iframed tabled mess HTML had become. At this point, HTML *relaxed* into a generic layout structure, extendable through media such as images and plugins. Of course this came with its own sack of trouble but at the very least we could take our 42 nested tables and hacked CSS and shove it back where it came from in favor of a plugin ideally suited for the job.
While we are “killing” tech we “don’t like”, let me throw in the notion that the HTML/CSS/JS jackass triumvirate has got to go just as much as any plugin. It is killing the Internet, and the joy of creating content for it.
Apple has no say anyway. The first thing you do if you want to view a website on their devices is look for the companion app, because boy oh boy does viewing a website on an iPhone suck; The web is not suited for the small screen, and no amount of haxing of standards will magically fix this problem. It will forever rest on the shoulders of the web designers and the client’s ability to pay for two versions of their site.
I see a lot of clueless flash fanboys attacking the author for no good reason. There are plenty of examples of “flash-like” interactivity written in HTML and java script. Take a look at the web mail UI for mobile me for example. take a look at the galleries for mobile me home pages. Take a look at these examples:
http://www.noupe.com/jquery/50-amazing-jquery-examples-part1.html
http://www.noupe.com/ajax/37-more-shocking-jquery-plugins.html
The main thing missing right now is an integrated development environment but that will come eventually. I’d like to see Adobe come out with a good editor once they admit that flash is coming to an end.
Here is the death of Flash -> http://www.benjoffe.com/code/games/torus/
Check out interactive game without using Flash. Try opening in HTML 5 complaint browser.
You call this a game? Come on, the animations are moving about 5 FPS with no transitions. Find a better example for your argument.
There is a reason that Javascript based games aren’t widely adopted by developers.
Nice, but almost fried my laptop! Processor intensive as hell on Chrome/Linux.
Hey, wait a minute, processor intensive isn’t a major complaint agaisnt Flash player?
Does it work on all browsers too?
Reality is: I can’t get paid for a job if it doesn’t work on all browsers, including IE7/8 at least!
Talk about a consistent experience!
Justin wrote: ” … there is currently no reason not to consider Flash for a project … ”
There certainly is if your client has any desire to reach the nearly 100 million strong market of iPhone OS users (iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad). It’s a demographic marketers ignore at their peril. And by the way, the irony of seeing MBA types who understand this new reality better than a lot of techies is not lost on me.
Animations moving around 5fps? Seriously? You using IE by any chance? Take a look at the other demos on that site…pretty neat stuff for just HTML and Javascript.
Was using Chrome–and you said it best “pretty neat stuff for just HTML & Javascript.”
Game making is best left for more robust tools at the moment. HTML5 is just a toy.
No offence mate, but before posting articles like this, inform yourself… TNW is supposed to be a good, informative website with objective content.
This article has been written from what was read on other websites, without any further investigation towards why it would kill Flash etc…
I’m a Flash developer, but I embrace HTML5 as well, and many more should. TNW has always been a good source of inspiration and a good way to keep myself up to date, but articles like this are damaging the integrity of TNW.
As I said, no offence meant at all, but please do some research before blatantly copying opinions from other blogs and posting them on what is to be an objective way for all people who are involved with the web to stay updated.
Flash adverts can not be complained about. You think if flash does die that the annoying adverts will stop?
Flash isn’t just used for intro animation and adverts. Quit fucking moaning.
Jobs just doesn’t want flash to steal from his precious app store. Flash is fully capable of running on an iPhone. It runs on android. So why wouldn’t it work on an iPhone or iPad. These devices are not supplying a full web experience. If I want information from a site, I don’t care what it is made with I just want to be able to view it an get what I need. And apple are not allowing us to do that. I use and own apple products so don’t bother saying I’m a windows lover or some crap like that. HTML 5 is not shit, flash is not shit. But I would rather use flash for app development, so I could release said app on more than just one device. Apple currently make 30% from each app sold. There loosing out by not letting the flash developers put there games on the app store. Insult and attack me if you want to, but to think flash will die, and die so quickly and soon. Your mad.
End rant
Flash is great for some things, not so much for others. HTML is great for some things, not so much others. iPhones are great for somethings, not so great for others, etc.
If you want a platform / programming language that will tick all the boxes, sorry but you’re gonna be wanting for some time.
“New Flash alternative”? OK if its any good I’ll learn it and use it.
p.s. It seems an immature (no, poor) journalism technique to research your article once you’ve written it. Just seems like bandwagon jumping, which is no good for anyone.
Soooo tired of being locked into Adobe’s proprietary “Flash”, when better open alternatives such as HTML5 are available, and rapidly growing in usage.
Blinky, twinkly, pesky flash.
What wonders it does for the websites it squats on!
It’s not 1995 no one uses Flash for “intros” anymore. Truth is HTML5 is still in it’s infancy. It’s takes twice the dev time right now, which means double the budget to a client. As of right now it runs even worse then Flash on iPad. It comes down to weather or not it’s worth it to a client for iPhone / iPad support because that is a big fad right now. Obviously that will change with time but that also allows Adobe to make changes as well in that time. I am interested to see what HTML5 can do in the future but as of right now, I’m honestly not impressed with it. I think it’s to early to tell what is going to happen.
I think HTML5 would be fine for most things. You can use a program like http://www.awesomeanimator.com which you can save the animations as SWF Flash animations or HTML5 animations. So it’s really simple and not a big hassle at all. Actually most animations could simply be saved as HTML5 videos and put on YouTube! Much simpler. :)